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marks on his arm

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missiy
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marks on his arm

ok so I need some help. the boyfriend and I took the kids to the pride parade today. on the way back my 3 yo son climbed up on the porch at my uncles' house. I told him we were leaving an he needed to get down and he didn't listen. so the bf grabbed him, but not appropriately. he got like the meat of his arm and pulled him down with that. Now he has a bruise and even nail marks. i made the bf leave my apartment. he wanted to tell he didn't mean to hurt devin, and i flipped out telling of course he didn't fucking mean to that people don't try to leave fucking marks, but it happenes when u aren't careful. now i don't know what to do... at the moment i feel like i need to keep him out of my life, but i don't know if i am over-reacting. he is really a great guy and a parent himself. in fact i had a test this morning and he woke up with the kids and took them to the museum of play. he just gets really impatient and his first reaction is always to spank the kids. however that is how he was raised. although i do spank the kids too sometimes, i think he over reacts and does it way too quick. i have explained to him better ways of doing things. and we do work on better ways to parent the kids.

i am really upset right now and like i said i don't know what to do. i don't know if we should just talk things out and he will just cool his jets or if i should just ends things right now.

please any suggestions would be great!

sherylsue
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Re: marks on his arm

I think this is gonna raise a lot of alarms, I know when I saw the title my first thought was WHHHAAAAT? It sounds like he is a bit quick to punish and wasn't as gentle as he should have been- that being said, I know I have on occasion been less of a gentle mom than I would have liked to be... although I'm not sure I've ever made marks as excessive as this, or any at all, really.
I love that your first reaction was to get him away. I don't know that he is a lost cause though. Perhaps the two of you could take some parenting classes together and I would really limit his access to your kid(s?) and definitally not leave him alone with him(them). Has he contacted you? Where does he stand, does he think you are crazy overreacting or does he feel guilty and remorseful?

missiy
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need some advice

I haven't talked to him yet. i can't date someone that i am not comfortable letting watch my son. i really really hope he is really sorry.

I changed the title... when i wrote it i was still really upset hence the blunt and honest title.

ugh i wish this didn't happen. i can't go to my mom's or dad's all weekend because if they see marks on dev they will do something. i guess that's why this seems all the more urgent and scary.

momnipotent
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Re: marks on his arm

I would be cautious about putting too much stock in someone's being remorseful. Even severely abusive partners are usually remorseful (it's part of the cycle of abuse) but it doesn't take away from the fact that abuse has taken place and will again.

Harming your child is a dealbreaker. Spanking as a first reaction... that harms your child. Leaving marks on your child's arm because he was too impatient or angry or whatever... that's harming your child. You've talked to him about it and he's still doing it. He may be working on it, but is he ever going to fully fix the problem, and if so how long will that take, and how much harm is going to be caused to your child in the meantime?

missiy
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Re: marks on his arm

ok thanks that's what i needed to hear.... i really wasn't sure if i was over reacting. thanks ladies for the support

missiy
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Re: marks on his arm

he called. he was crying said he didn't want to lose us. said he thinks he has an anger problem. his mom and ex told him a long time ago. said he has been able to talk things out with me etc and he hasn't been as angry. he said he wants to do something like parenting classes and talking to someone to help him. i told him if he treating his son like this that his son will get taken away. his son is fine. he is at his grandmas. basically i told him i can't tell him if we can be together right now.

momtobe19
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Re: marks on his arm

I can completely understand how you are feeling. Has he ever done anything like this before? are you starting to see a pattern of behavior from him?

I agree with sherylsue I too have not always been the most gentle mother and sometimes I didn't realize how ungentle I was being. If this has never happened before I would have a serious discussion on what is acceptable to you as discipline.

I hope you figure out what is the best for you guys :)

missiy
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Re: marks on his arm

nothing like this has ever happened before. david came over last night to bring back my car seat (it was in his car when i made him leave). he wanted to talk. all he really did is cry and tell me he didn't want to lose us. i helped him find resources for parenting info and also classes. he wanted to me to tell him anything that meant we would be together. he asked me to take classes with him, he asked me if i was still going to help him plan his sons bday party, and if we were together. i said we will see to all of the above. all i want is to have some time to see how serious this is. i want to see how his daycare teachers react. luckily they are coworkers and i will talk to them about it. he keeps wanting to tell me it was an accident and i keep telling him regardless it's a big deal. we are mandatory reporters at daycare which means if we SUSPECT abuse or neglect we have to report it. i dont think anyone will do that, but it might get documented in case anything in the future happens.

right now i am seesawing between momnipotents reaction and sherylsues reaction. i just want to think about it for the next few days without him calling me and wanting to talk.

MamaButterfly
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Re: marks on his arm

This would be an absolute deal breaker for me. Impatience to the point of hurting children is not acceptable.

NicoSwan
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Re: marks on his arm

If your boyfriend wants to get real and do some hard work for his emotional well being and for whomever his partner will be in the future. Might I suggest a parenting class that gets to the heart of Non-Violent Communication. NVC is a mediation technique that Marshall Rosenburg as also applied to parenting.
http://www.nonviolentcommunication.com/aboutnvc/parenting.htm
There are workshops held across the country based on this technique. Look for que words like "Compassionate Parenting".

It seems as though you would benefit from this as well. It helps heal along with teaching.

Although, with that info I agree with MamaButterfly on this one.
I grew up in very abusive situations so I'm super sensitive about these things. To the point where we don't use the words hate, shut-up, stupid, or promise in our family. They are worse than cursing, for me and my family.

I've even dated someone for just one night because they said they believe in corporal punishment. They said, "Kids will never learn unless they are forced to. I mean, all they want to do is play" Ahg, PUKE!
Of course they want to play, jeez, they're KIDS - HELLO!

You can learn to be not only a better parent but a better person when you are able to get to a child's level.
Go into the child's play world. Talk to them with meaning, patience and heart. Walk over to the child so they know you are trying to speak with them, "I know you really want to play on the porch but it's time to go. I need your help in leaving. Would you like to help me figure out dinner tonight?" Etc.
Kids love having a purpose in their parents and other adults lives. It takes time but this method really works.

MamaButterfly
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Re: marks on his arm

I've gotten into negative parenting patterns myself, and I love everything Nicoswan is saying. I agree that NVC would be great for you. I've found that when I have a boyfriend that is less tolerant of the kids' behavior, I become less tolerant as well, trying to please him. That is why I will only date a man who is extremely patient and loving toward children.

missiy
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Re: marks on his arm

yeah i agree that sounds great. i think i have gotten into some bad patterns from the way i was raised. my mom yelled a lot and both parents spanked us sooo that's what i do too. and even as i do it i am always telling myself there is a better way. and the most ridiculous part is that i work with kids everyday. and i do not act the same way with them as i do at home. i think that just comes from being burned out after dealing with 14 4year olds all day and then coming home to deal with yet another well 3 1/2 year old. i have also noticed that i was a way better teacher before i had Devin because i made sure to play with the kids and understand their feelings instead of wanting them to just listen to me.

i think a lot of david's frustration is having the kids get older and act differently. his son was a total angel. now he's almost 2 and getting to a point where he has his own will and it's pretty rough. he has never been around kids and all he knows is that he doesn't want him to act like that. he just doesn't have a good first reaction.

i am kind of leaning towards staying with him and working on this together. i am just scared that that is the most stupid idea in the world. help me weigh the pros and cons to this decision!!

NicoSwan
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Re: marks on his arm

Have you made a list of pros and cons?
Why do you want to work it out?
What is it that you are getting from him that is worth all of this?
Are the children needs being met?
Are your needs being met?
Is there meaning in the conversations you are currently having with David? As in, are there now clear rules and guidelines you are setting for each other, the relationship you have with him and the relationship he has with your children?
What is safe touch to you?
Do you have a safe word in your family? Ours is "stop" and the hand signal for stop.

We all take things too far sometimes but we can learn from them.
Take a walk, breath, savour something that is special and just for you every once in a while. I have a secret chocolate stash!

Really, I think the only person who can make this decision is you.

If it were we I would have to see some serious changes before letting him back into mine and, more importantly, my children's lives. Like attending least an 6 parenting classes of some kind and anger management and/or group therapy.
I'm all about "Prove it!"

missiy
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Re: marks on his arm

yeah i am all about proving it too. and regardless of what i decide he's gunna prove first before he gets an answer for me. i know he signed up for 2 classes right now.

i know i have to make this decision myself, but i am terrified of the responsibility of doing so. and i really need someone to talk it out who is not so personally involved in our lives such as my mother or my best friend. my mother of course is biast towards me and my best friend unfortunately thinks this is no big deal for some reason.

i like talking it out with everyone here because u understand that your kid is #1 and some of u have been in such a situation. i really just need some help with all this.

NicoSwan
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Re: marks on his arm

Are you near a University?
Often times Universities have sliding scale counseling programs.
Ours is wonderful! One of my girlfriends has her daughter in the children and families programme. They have have family therapy and also have the kids do group therapy once every two weeks. I'm signing my son up after summer is over.

As for more advice, I'm about tapped out. Personally, I've been in two abusive relationships as an adult.One of the relationships the person was an alcoholic and verbally and mentally/emotionally abusive and the other he was physically abusive. Both are gone, gone, gone from my life. They were both good friends and in different friendship circles. I don't associate with the friends anymore either. They thought I should just "deal" with it. Blah!
My Mother, Father, Aunt and cousins were all verbally, mentally/emotionally, and physically abusive towards me while growing up. I ran away from home throughout high school until I finally moved out at 17 years old.
In my mid 20s I decided to finally take charge! I took on the responsibility of the adult relationships I had been in and that I was going to be in in the future. I no longer have addicts or abusers in my life, no exceptions! I told my family that they could not be alone with my son, EVER! And that if they wanted to spend time with us they had to get help for their anger problems. Only my Mother followed through...some what. I still have to ask her to leave almost every time she comes for a visit. This past year I've been meeting her in public spaces or at close friends houses.

With all of that said, I'm now with someone who honours my wishes and I honour his. We DO NOT tolerate name calling, cursing, or violence in our family. Even though we can't control what others do, we don't tolerate much of this out and about either.

Honestly, it sounds like you know what you should do but your life patterns (life's past?) are getting in the way.
We know all about how parenting takes heart and how to follow through on this. Right? What is hard is when parenting takes head, your clear, conscious, and compassionate thoughts and following through on what needs to be done.

How long have you all been together?

After I had been with my current partner for about 3 years he had to physically remove my son from a violent situation that he was the cause of. In this removing process, my son wound up with an achy and bruised back. My partner picked him up by his chest/ribs because my son's arms where flailing and my partner didn't want to pull his arms out of the socket. I was witness to the situation yet was still upset about it. Although I knew that we had no other choice, I'm very petite and slim and can no longer pick up my kids, we still had much to work out. It was mainly about getting my son better outlets to express himself and having my partner give my son time to work things out. My partner is very protective of the kids and is quick to remove them from situations before things get too hairy. I encourage our boys to work things out before deciding to remove them.

At any rate, this situation isn't very similar to yours but the out come is still talking in some form or another.

missiy
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Re: marks on his arm

thanks i appreciate all that you have shared with me. it is really helpful to have others on your side to suppot you... that's why i love gm. thanks for sharing your own experience. i am so proud to hear that you pulled through and have done the best for your son.

momnipotent
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Re: marks on his arm

Some more questions...

These are questions I ask myself sometimes, esp. when making decisions.
What kind of environment do I want my child to grow up in, and how will this decision contribute to or take away from that? Am I doing everything I can to provide this environment, and if not, what can I be doing that I'm not? Do I need to improve my support network?

Specifically relating to your decision...
What is your BF teaching your son about his own body, expressing anger, and what it means to be a man?

missiy
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Re: marks on his arm

thanks i went through nicoswan's questions last night and will answer these questions today. after a few days of thought and this support i have come to the decision that he needs to learn more about parenting appropriately. i feel like i could use some help keeping my own anger in check. i have decided that we need to work on this as a family. that this is something we can learn from to prevent it from happening again. he and i have been great at supporting each other and parenting together before and i think we can do it again. he is going to sit down with devin and apologize and talk to him about what happened. he already took one class that really opened his eyes on discipline. he has more lined up that i will do with him so we can support each other and learn together.

thanks for helping me through this, i really appreciate all the support and advice.